Question: What do you get when you put together a discussion group full of incredibly stupid and whiny pseudo-intellectual abortionists, a direct question, an attempt to use logic, and the truth?
Answer: A trainwreck! And a very entertaining one at that. Below I give you the hilarious transcript of an online discussion board conversation I had with some pro-choice loonies when I tried to be civil and logical. Of course in true pro-choice form, they answered every question clearly and logically, they were very friendly and helpful, and then monkeys flew out of my butt and attacked some flying pigs that were passing by just as satan asked for a blanket because he was freezing, as we all listened to George Bush as he spoke eloquently about how war was bad. My favorite was the ranting about the Talmud. The Talmud? What does that have to do with fricking abortion, or the legality of killing babies??? Hmmm...it was a classic abortion-stylee sidestep, although not a very smooth one.
If I ever hear a pro-choicer answer a question directly or logically, I swear to God I will shoot myself in the head. (Don't worry, never going to happen.)
Wow, it's kind of long, but it's quick reading and really hilarious:
***Comments will follow asterisks
CAPITALS ARE WHO IS SPEAKING
***It all begins simply enough. I act very polite and questioning, and I am very careful not to take sides:
ODHAV:
I have a question for those of you (presumably almost all those here)
who are pro-choice. I find the pro-abortion arguments regarding a
woman's right to control her own body very obvious and I agree with
them. What I do not understand, due primarily to the fact that I have
never heard anyone explain it, is the logic behind why a fetus is not
considered to be sufficiently 'alive' to have its legal right to life.
It is undeniable that our constitution protects the individual's
right to life and liberty, so I assume that the belief is that the
fetus is not 'alive' in a legal sense. Please be kind enough to
elaborate, and comment on the reasons why a fully developed fetus in
the womb is different from a fully developed fetus that was just born
or delivered prematurely.
I understand the "pro-life" or "anti-choice" or whatever position,
which is simply that a fetus becomes a living being at the moment of
conception, or very early in the pregnancy, and I understand the
reasons for this belief. (that fetuses resemble newborns, the belief
that a newborn and a fetus are the same developing organism, etc.)
What I do not understand thus far is how a developing fetus (in most
cases soon to become a newborn child) is fundamentally different
during pregnancy from after birth, aside from the obvious fact that it
is outside of the woman. Is it simply a question of location, or what
exactly is the determining factor?
Just so I can hopefully cut off any quick defensive judgements, this
is not a criticizing question, nor am I attempting to undermine
anyone's opinions...I am quite honestly undecided on the abortion
issue for this very reason, and I'd like to get the pro-choice side of
this part of the argument, so I can make an informed decision. Think
of this as your chance to win someone over to the truth. ;)
Thanks in advance for you help.
***And the first reply:
DEBRA:
No, I never claimed a fetus is less alive than you or I. It's just not a person and is not deserving of the rights of one, legally and in my case by religious doctrine.
***Well it didn't answer the question at all, and it's kind of defensive, but maybe we can clear this up...
ODHAV:
Yes that's my question...why is it not regarded as enough of a
'person' to have these rights...I just don't understand the logic,
please elaborate. Is it just because it is still inside the woman?
What change takes place at birth that causes the fetus to become a
'person'? Thanks for discussing.
DEBRA:
No! A fetus isn't even a person. Legally or according to the Talmud.
***That didn't make any sense. And in response to my asking to explain the logic:
Since this is a legal question ask a lawyer!
***That didn't make any sense at all either...hmmm...do you even know why you're pro-choice?
IN RESPONSE TO DEBRA SAYING:
> A fetus isn't even a person.
ODHAV:
That's exactly the question I'm asking, and you haven't yet explained
why that is a true statement. Why do you not view a fetus as a
person? Is there a logical reason for this? Is it because of its
dependence on the woman? If so, why is a newborn considered a person
once outside the woman even if the umbilical cord is still intact,
which is what connects the woman to the child? Thanks for clearing
this up.
SCOTT PIPES IN:
I don't see what you don't get. If it's inside a woman it is a fetus. When it is born it is a human. I think most of the rest of the world understand this, so I don't know why it's so hard for you.
***That was nice and condescending...but you're an idiot and you didn't answer the question, you restated it in the form of an answer. You sure do think you're smart, though, and that has to be worth something....nope.
ODHAV:
You see, it's not that I don't get it, it's that you haven't said why.
You just keep restating that "it's not a human until it's born." An
argument cannot just have a what, it has to have a why. I don't base
my opinions on faith in what people say, it has to be logical. No one
here today has given a reason why it is not human. For example,
pro-lifers would say that it IS human because it grows and develops
and is one day to become a full grown human, thus it is the same
organism and therefore it is human. Now what would be the actual
REASON that a fetus is not 'human'? (Please remember that saying that
it is not born yet is not a WHY, it is merely repeating the WHAT)
IN RESPONSE TO ODHAV SAYING:
That's exactly the question I'm asking.
DEBRA:
Ask a lawyer. It's the law.
IN RESPONSE TO ODHAV SAYING:
haven't yet explained why that is a true statement. Why do you not view a fetus as a person?
DEBRA:
Because the law and the Talmud says it isn't. Sorry if you don't like it, but this is a PC board remember. So if you don't like these answers, you shouldn't be here.
IN RESPONSE TO ODHAV SAYING:
Is there a logical reason for this? Is it because of its dependence on the woman?
DEBRA:
OK, I'll make this as easy as possible, IT HASN'T BEEN BORN YET. Do you get it now? NO? I do. And that's why I'm PC. Why don't you start showing respect for life if you want to stay on this board.
***Wow Debra, you are definitely a short bus master...you managed to restate your assertion about five million times as if you were answering the question. And you got angry for no reason...let's give her a hand, and bullet in the kneecap.
ODHAV:
There was no need for you to get so incredibly hostile towards me, and
I am aware that this is a PC board...that why I'm here to hear your
side of it. Also something being the law does not mean that it is
logical, nor does it mean that it is right. "The law" also says that
people cannot drive over the speed limit, and that
the FBI can tap your phone...I do not agree with the law in many
respects, so that appeal to authority is not proof. I'm asking if
there is some higher medical definition of human life, or something
not based on BELIEF, but on logic, upon which you base your opinions.
As far as what the Talmud says, that has no bearing on my views of
the world whatsoever, although I respect its importance for you. I am
also aware that the child has not been born yet, but it seems that you
are the one who does not get it, as you have not answered my question.
Please do not respond to this with more anger or defensiveness; that
is not helpful and has no place in civil discussion. I forward this
question to anyone who might better understand the question and be
able to answer more completely.
SCOTT-TARD IS BACK:
I spent a good part of today in front of a women's clinic today and had to listen to people making silly statements to me, insult me and harass women. I saw a 50 year old weirdo (male, of course) ask a woman coming out of the clinic why she was there. She said "for my yearly exam" and then he went off on her for having that exam at a place that does abortions (he called "the place where they kill little babies"). When she came back with "I don't have insurance and this is the only place I can afford", Fred's response was "oh, so it all comes down to money". As she walked away eh called her a murderer and a few other things. Just so you know, these tactics do not help your side and in fact helped me recruit 3 people for our cause. Why am I telling you this? Because you anti-choice people need to realize that being on this site is not helping your cause. It only strengthens our views. And, with all the talk here in America of Supreme Court appointees, listening to your drivel just reminds me that I need to fight for the right of Choice. So, slag off.
ODHAV:
That's all very interesting, but completely irrelevant. I have not
said anything at all in this discussion that was anti-choice at
all...I've merely asked questions. Apparently these questions are too
difficult to be answered directly, because I all I have been met with
has been "leave if you don't like it" and "our side vs. your side"
crap that has nothing to do with anything I've said. I have not said
anything from either side, and to draw a parallel between my logical
and straightforward inquiries and some lunatic calling people
murderers is asinine, and demonstrates to me only that if "your side"
as you put it is represented by you, then "your side" doesn't know
what they're talking about and doesn't know how to answer a question.
But, I will assume that everyone else knows what they're talking
about more than you, and give one last chance for someone to answer my
question without insults or defensiveness or question dodging. And
finally, so you know, telling someone to "slag off" is not the proper
way to conduct a discussion, and does not make you seem like a very
intelligent or informed person. Please refrain from using childish
insults from now on.
ODHAV:
I'm getting very tired of explaining to people that asking completely
neutral questions in order to understand someone's opinion is NOT
'anti-choice'. It's very simple. If someone was to come in here and
call someone a babykiller, that would be 'anti-choice'. Asking
questions and trying to become informed on an issue is not
anti-choice, it's not anti-anything. It's called trying to form a
logical conclusion based on gathered information. What is causing
conflict here is the fact that no one is answering questions, and
everyone is just becoming very defensive and insulting. For example,
Scott enjoys dodging questions and then being patronizing by stating
things like "everyone else understands it, I don't know why it's so
hard for you." And Debra finds insulting people to be very conducive
to understanding and discussion. The problem is not the people who
are asking the questions, the problem is the people who are taking
them the wrong way, dodging them, or just being childish.
IN RESPONSE TO ODHAV SAYING:
That's all very interesting, but completely irrelevant. I have not said anything at all in this discussion that was anti-choice at all...
DEBRA:
Really? Then what do you call asking us when a fetus becomes a baby and about an abortion procedure that doesn't even exist. I've been here long enough to what you were trying to do? And it'll never work I'll always fight for your rights even if you think you don't deserve them.
***Apparently asking someone about their opinions and asking them for a logical explanation is attacking them...wow Debra I'm glad you're pro-abortion, because then maybe you'll never pass you're idiot genes on to future generations of lunatics like yourself.
ODHAV:
Actually I never said anything about specific abortion procedures this
whole time, that was someone else. And when I asked if a fetus
becomes a baby, that is a logical question, not a trap of some sort.
A question I hoped you would know the answer to, but apparently you
don't know the answer, or you're just not going to tell me because
you're too busy fighting against me in this imaginary war you have in
your head...I am sorry but you are wrong. I have not said anything
anti-choice the whole time I have been here. You have been
confrontational and insulting and very immature, so I do not think I
feel like continuing this endless babbling loop of nonsense with you.
******************************END
So we have learned the argument for abortion. Abortion is right because fetuses don't have rights, because fetuses aren't human, because they haven't been born yet. Wait a second...why? OH YEAH...there is no fricking why!! These people are stupid and can't answer a question. I haven't turned 80 yet, does that mean that I'm not human? I doubt they'd answer that one either. Hope you enjoyed.